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 Free First Aid course for overlanders

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rustyrhinos
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PostSubject: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:23 am

Right. I had an idea. One of the companies I work for was looking to expand their range of First Aid courses to specific industries and sectors - so I suggested advernture/overland First Aid might be a thing to work towards - and given that there are companies out there that do it already, it would appear that there is demand.

So I made a suggestion of hosting a free First Aid Course tailored to overlanders as a tester/taster and perhaps to generate a bit of interest. It would essential be the content of the Emergency First Aid at work (EFAW - 1 day) or First Aid at Work (FAW - 3 day) which would be correctly certified courses but with more emphasis on the sort of injuries that overlanders might come across, perhaps bit more discusion on kit to take and so on.

So... question to the forum members - is there an interest here for a free First Aid Course for Overlanders? The course venue would be based on the location of the people who are interested - will try to find a mid-way point.

Secondly, what "extra" bits above and beyond the standard syllabus do yu think would be useful to cover? I am sure many of us here have been on the bog-standard courses but what are they missing which would make it more relevant to overlanders?

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:53 pm

Wouldn't personally subscribe to it, but would wholeheartedly support it and recommend anyone not holding a basic First Aid certificate should do so.

As an employer I insist that every employee takes the course and its mandatory if you work for me to do so. many employees do foreign work in countries without the medical services we take for granted, our heavy division is often handling large pieces of steelwork or large assemblies, and many employees also have children. When they join us and go on the course they often poo poo it at first and dismiss it as a waste of time, once they get to deal with a real incident they all say they got a buzz from it and the training paid dividends because most people flounder around and have no clue what to do.

Then we have the numerous lives many employees have saved, most are from road traffic accidents, and lets face it we all travel by road and most become complacent about the potential an accident can have. We have many letters of thanks from grateful people and their families where employees have intervened with fairly basic First Aid saved several lives over the years which is not only a testament to my staff, but their training as well. In one incident a pregnant mother slid off the road in her car and down a bank, the petrol tank was ruptured and fuel was leaking, two staff saw it and managed to extract her from the vehicle before it blew, mother and baby survived and her son was named Andrew Wayne after the two men who extracted her and administered First Aid.

If nothing else its a nice testament to her gratitude.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:59 pm

Over and above 'normal' first aid, relating to overland travel I would say the two main areas would be ...

Apart from treating abrasions, cuts, etc. just as important is avoiding infection setting in.

Treating bites - insect and animal.


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rustyrhinos
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:19 am

If onyl everyone had the same attitude as you Assassin! there are plenty of companie sout there who only train the minimum required as per the wa and nothing else - and many don't even have any first aiders on scene!

That is quite a story r.e the petrol tank! Takes a bit of guts tbh to do something like that. And many people worry about back/neck injuries way too much and end up not moving them "just incase". Of course a neck or back injury is neither here nor there if you have been blown to bits by an exploding fuel tank or you have stopped breathing for whatever reason.

Good points Tom they would be a useful inclusions. On notes of animal bites/stings interstingly, the regs do not require that allergic reaction is taught on the one day EFAW course. Pucture wounds from animal bites is a good idea.

Someone gave me a good bit of advice for land mines. Apparently the procedure if you stand on one is to throw yourself in the air several yards and scatter yourself over a large surface area Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:21 am

Brilliant idea!

Not terribly experienced with Overlanding, but going back (waaaaay back) to my Army days, when I spent much more time than I would have preferred in the jungle, I would say that 3 things could/would be useful;

Bearing in mind often a long way from nowhere.............
Animal bites/stings etc -,

how to deal with serious gastric problems, ie; Dysentery or similar

and something like "how to deal with a serious fracture in the field". Having undergone the usual basic "St Johns" first aid for work courses I would suggest that these are probably the main bits that would be missing....

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:13 am

Rusty, I support it because I have held First Aid certificates for more years than I would admit to, over the years I have saved a couple of lives and been offered awards for doing so (and declined them) but my attitude is thus, If I can help someone I will if their genuine people, if I save their life and exacerbate something like a spinal injury, at least there alive to try to sue me.
Similarly I drive many miles, this year alone up until the end of June I have driven 53,000 miles, sometimes in our trucks, sometimes in our 4X4's, but mainly in my company car which is a BMW 3 series, chosen because it is a safe vehicle in most accidents. What happens if I am in an accident myself? hopefully someone will have First Aid training and come to my assistance whether or not I need it, basically its a little extra insurance in the event I am involved in an accident.

Hence my support for this scheme as we never know when we might need it.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:31 pm

Glad you think it is a good idea maadmaan10. I think you are right - an idea how to treat things like a major fracture when you are in the middle of nowhere is a good idea. the assumption when you go on a standard First Aid Course is that the ambulance will be there soon then all is hunky dory.

And knowing how to deal with someone who has the shits or more serious things - yeah, I can see that too maadman10

Good attitude Assassin I have to say! 53K miles in about half a year...!!

Howabout guys...what injuries have you or your team/followers had while out and about overlanding? I have been lucky so far I have to say with only the odd knock and scrape and a mate who had rapid bowel movements that lead to him loosing the car keys!


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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:32 pm

i think this idea would get lots of support,me included
things i would like to see covered are

wound closure when plaster/bandage and pressure are not sufficient

how to administer drugs carried by people who are not able to administer it themselves ie diabetics

and following my recent at work first aid reflesher where we learnt how to imobilise a neck injury by holding the head in the correct place,how do you go on in the bush when you have to get the casuality to help
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:06 am

kevinf wrote:
i think this idea would get lots of support,me included
things i would like to see covered are

wound closure when plaster/bandage and pressure are not sufficient

how to administer drugs carried by people who are not able to administer it themselves ie diabetics

and following my recent at work first aid reflesher where we learnt how to imobilise a neck injury by holding the head in the correct place,how do you go on in the bush when you have to get the casuality to help

Interesting points. Controlling bleeding by indirect presssure (as opposed to direct pressure by plaster/bandage) and of course monitoring for symptoms and treating for shock is important. The testing of blood and administering medication though is a very shady subject to try to get into. For example...if a was travelling with a friend who had diabetes for example then I would not think twice about administering. If however I was running an overland company and providing a tour I would require that medical details about the candidates were known, and if one did have diabetes (as an example) then I would want to have training on the subject and get a decent understanding on the subject before accepting them on the tour. And the problem is where does it stop - there are of course many many more illnesses/diseases and there is no way a first aid course could teach about how/when/quantity of the medication involved for every one.

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:32 am

"Howabout guys...what injuries have you or your team/followers had while out and about overlanding? I have been lucky so far I have to say with only the odd knock and scrape and a mate who had rapid bowel movements that lead to him loosing the car keys!"


Laughing Laughing


Some of the things which had to be dealt with, (back in 70's)........total of 41 weeks in jungle type terrain;


Apart from bullet wounds...

Snake / spider bites.
Broken legs- twice after slips down slopes.
Upper arm impaled on a "giant barbed thorn"( about a foot long)
Heat/Sun stroke
Dehydration
1 x serious animal bite wound and deep claw wounds after tripping over a very large cat
1 x crushed foot because an idiot got himself in the way of a vehicle.
Some of those are not too likely though! Laughing










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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Took the words out of my mouth ... heatstroke and dehydration. They are two things (probably one in reality) that are important to cover in a First Aid course for overlanders.

What to do to prevent dehydration - the obvious "just drink lots of water" or are glucose-type drinks better? I really have no idea and I've been in the jungle on five separate occasions, that can't be good!

What to do when somebody gets heatstroke - wet towel on forehead, get as much water as possible down their neck? Again, I really have no idea! Poor show eh? Embarassed

Coincidentally, I've just had a trader book up for ADVENTURE OVERLAND that covers the very subjects contained in this thread. Called Training Expertise Ltd. they fit in perfectly to the show's remit, as there maybe plenty of adventure tour operators and folk selling roof tents attending, but up until now nobody that specialised in "First Aid training for outdoor or wilderness environments" and suchlike; they do!


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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Drinking less Shiraz reduces dehydration.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:21 am

Assassin wrote:
Drinking less Shiraz reduces dehydration.
lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Sorry Tom, couldn't resist.
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PostSubject: least concerned but great for people   Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:57 pm

Although I am just a tourist but still I insist every person of Overland should possess the basic knowledge of first aid and it is imperative to every human that they will know the immediate medical measures in the times of crisis, it may be civil and it may be accidental or be it natural disaster but people should be equipped with the tools of knowledge, therefore I make a vow of openhearted support of the cause.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:59 pm

Agreed Mark, it makes good sense.

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:06 am

For dehydration you need water and salt, if you add a little salt to your food while cooking it, then add a little more to the meal before eating it, you should have a sufficient intake, alternatively you can get salt tablets which are actually quite nice as they are flavoured. One other little tip is to carry lots of boiled sweets as they introduce sugar slowly, and over a prolonged period, and without the sugar rush, this maintains energy levels along with water and salt..
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PostSubject: Agreed   Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:08 pm

Assassin wrote:
For dehydration you need water and salt, if you add a little salt to your food while cooking it, then add a little more to the meal before eating it, you should have a sufficient intake, alternatively you can get salt tablets which are actually quite nice as they are flavoured. One other little tip is to carry lots of boiled sweets as they introduce sugar slowly, and over a prolonged period, and without the sugar rush, this maintains energy levels along with water and salt..

This true that water and salt is vital for human nutrition and maintaining the sufficient levels of energy. I agree to the fact but excessive intake of salt is harmful like you are suggesting the increase in the quantity of salt in food, this will lea to the malfunctioning of liver in long run and same is the case with sugar intake. Dehydration can be easily addressed by sufficient water intake and there are other alternative greener sources of energy such as fruits and green vegetables.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:52 am

Bill, if you read my post again it states a sufficient intake, when on an expedition people have a variety of foods, and many foods may not be immediatly available such as fresh fruit or veg, most members on here are wise enough to check what levels of salt or sugar they need without it being excessive, and compensate by adding it if necessary, or omitting it if they don't need it.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:26 am

This is terrific - it was asked by somebody on Yahoo Answers: Does wine have salt in it?

To which the first answer was:-

Yes, wine does contain a negligible amount of salt. You would have to drink 100 bottles of a wine of average saltiness in order to exceed your maximum daily intake of salt.

Followed by a far more precise answer:-

Wine does not contain salt. However it does contain a small amount of sodium. Salt is sodium and chloride together - but that compound is not found in wine.

All fruits, vegetables and meat have some sodium in them - and since wine is made purely of grape juice, it stands to reason there is some sodium in it.

But the amount in an average red wine, in one wine glass (about 5 ounces of wine) is about 6 mg of sodium. Far less than what anyone would need to be concerned about.


Me, I'll go by the first answer safe in the knowledge I won't have a heart attack from too much salt intake if I go for the target of roughly 60 to 70 bottles! Laughing glug

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:14 pm

Just the normal intake then Tom.
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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:00 am

A Few specifics (common problems)


Malaria, diagnosis and treatment
Bilhartzia (anyone been swimming in lake Malawi)
Altitude Sickness (yes really - we ascend in vehicles faster than our bodies aclimatise, Altitude sickness can be got from around 7000ft upwards)



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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:15 pm

What a fantastic idea.

If you're going to organise a day or a few hour course definitely put me down for a place.

Up to now Iv'e always been a great believer in common sense and planning to prevent accidents and injures, but as I get older I find myself in more and more situation where accidents are more likely to happen, due to more extreme activities and the lack of ability as the body get older and not being as flexible as once was also especially as travelling more with others you can't always legislate for stupidity and not all people think in a logical order.
A bit like sitting on the wrong side of the branch you're sawing affraid

Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes but is the first aid course something that could be done at Toms 4x4 overland show in October ?

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:07 am

wideformat4x4 wrote:
Not wanting to tread on anyone's toes but is the first aid course something that could be done at Toms 4x4 overland show in October ?
Now there's an idea. I realise it's not what rustyrhinos had orignally envisaged, but the company could promote themselves at the show (they are looking to expand their range of First Aid courses to specific industries and sectors after all) and it would be a great way of getting everyone under one roof so to speak - quite literally as I could organise a marquee area where this could be held; it's certainly a thought. scratching chin

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PostSubject: Re: Free First Aid course for overlanders   Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:07 am

"Altitude Sickness (yes really - we ascend in vehicles faster than our bodies aclimatise, Altitude sickness can be got from around 7000ft upwards)"

GOOD POINT Rich, forgot about that one!

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