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 Trips lasting over 12 months

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wideformat4x4
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PostSubject: Trips lasting over 12 months   Mon May 14, 2012 7:54 am

A little advice please people.

In the past I have only travelled abroad for a maximum of 3 weeks.
I am hoping to take early retirement either next year but more than likely the year after and am looking to go travelling with a vehicle and the wife possible for more than 12 months if the planning goes to err plan.

I believe for your vehicle to be legal in many countries it has to be legal in the country of origin, now this is fine for insurance and breakdown cover which can be done via phone or internet but what happens in the case of road fund licence and mot ?
The insurance would not be valid if the vehicle was not taxed, so i'm in a bit of a quandary on how to stay legal for more than 12 month abroad ?

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:52 am

This is a fun one.

Essentially in the EU then I believe you must be legal in your country of registration, so you must carry tax, valid insurance and MOT

Once you get out of the EU it becomes more complex (or maybe simpler), many countries require you to have local insurance (often not worth the paper its printed on) and their vehicle laws may be less strict (although they will be applied to you far more stringently than the beat up old 504 with no working lights thats behind you)

The fun come when you exit africa and need to get back to the UK with no tax, MOT etc. You can book a test in Dover but what happens if you get stopped in Spain / France etc. ?

Sorry I have no answers but it might prompt a few more to pitch in


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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:12 am

Thanks, I hope someone who has travelled for longer periods of time may come to my rescue, the planning will be starting soon but without a start date for the trip things may well slide for a long period of time.

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:22 am

Hope this recommendation doesn't get me tarred and feathered here but i would have thought that a good source of info would be the horizons unlimited site - the 4x4 section could be very helpfull. I think one of the problems is that countries that were lax about things are now tightening up (my merc truck driving overland driver friend would hand the tax disk in at passport control at dover in a stamped addressed envelope for them to post back to the company when leaving the country) so the situation is changing. What we really need is an MOT station in southern spain for the african travellers - maybe we've got a use for the rock after all.


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PostSubject: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:04 am

Would it be possible to re-register the vehicle in France or Spain were there is no road fund license and the "Controle Technique" the french version of our MOT is done every 2 years and won't affect re-entry into the UK when you can re-register back to UK. I think you have 6 months to get the lights changed to left hand drive but you won't be staying there but would it help to have them changed?
Or is this too long winded!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:17 am

Very good question - one we are grappling with ourselves!

Challenges as I see it (restating some of the above):
- getting the vehicle retaxed abroad since MOT will have expired
- Keeping the vehicle insured so that the MIB doesn't slap a fine on you! (UK vehicles need to be continuously insured unless premanently exported).

So far, DVLA has been vague (surprisingly!) and our insurance company actually doesn't grasp the issue. They have said to us they can't insure the vehicle for use in Africa, which wasn't exactly what we were asking ... Rolling Eyes we asked what insurance we need to comply with legislation even though the vehicle isn't physically in the UK ...

Is the carnet technically a temporary export permit? What does that mean for the above?!?!?!!!

iveco4x4 wrote:

The fun come when you exit africa and need to get back to the UK with no tax, MOT etc. You can book a test in Dover but what happens if you get stopped in Spain / France etc. ?

Hubby did find some info on this ... I'll get him find it again and post it.

iveco4x4 wrote:

Sorry I have no answers but it might prompt a few more to pitch in

Me neither! Answers seems slim. Anyone else pitching in?

I have been in contact with RAC again with these questions, and they will be getting back to me next week - hopefully they can shed some light on the situation!

Watch this space!!

rgds,
African GirlChild


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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:43 am

All,

OK - I have had feedback from RAC who have been in contact with DVLA on my behalf.

It seems that you need to apply to the DVLA to have a Permanent Export Marker to be shown in the vehicle database for the vehicle, and request a confirmation of the request.

I have been given a draft letter, which I have uploaded onto our website:
http://www.kapp2cape.net/papertrail.html
and scroll down to the "Road Legal" section.

It seems to me that it would be necessary to send this letter to DVLA before the first of MOT or Insurance is due to expire while you are out travelling, which would ultimately render it impossible to renew the road tax.

We believe that as long as you have taken reasonable steps to try to keep your vehicle legal, that should help in the case of any dispute.

I hope that makes sense!

Comments welcome.

kind regards
African GirlChild

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roamingman
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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:15 am

I just had a thought try to talk with Peter and Eileen Crichton, they have been around the world 3 times, they might know more info. clinking teacups
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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:43 pm

roamingman wrote:
I just had a thought try to talk with Peter and Eileen Crichton, they have been around the world 3 times, they might know more info. clinking teacups

Great idea roamingman! thumbsup

I have dropped Peter a note, so will share useful information here.

Watch this space ...

kind rgds
African GirlChild

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:36 pm

... and as you say, contacting the DVLA should shed more light. Whoever you speak to on the phone, get their name and their position at DVLA - that way if what your hear is to your advantage, you should be able to get something in writing from either them or their 'head of department'. This alone could save you from a whole heap of grief.

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:15 am

Tom Mc wrote:
... and as you say, contacting the DVLA should shed more light. Whoever you speak to on the phone, get their name and their position at DVLA - that way if what your hear is to your advantage, you should be able to get something in writing from either them or their 'head of department'. This alone could save you from a whole heap of grief.

Yip - DVLA on the contact list too. thumbsup All sensible advice - I'll make notes. Any info from them will be posted here too ...

Have a good weekend all!
African GirlChild

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PostSubject: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:30 am

As it happens I live just 6 miles from the DVLA, Swansea and know a number of people working there. Next week I will call in at the DVLA and get what information I can with individuals, dept and dept heads details and see if I can get written confirmation re any regulation applicable.
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PostSubject: Trips lasting over 12 months   Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:31 pm

OK, I have spoken to the DVLA and they inform me that the vehicle owner needs to complete section 11 on the V5 and send it in to the DVLA which means that you are permentantly exporting the vehicle.
On arrival back to the UK the vehicle would need to be transported to a place for the MOT, Tax and Insurance to be brought back up to UK requirements.
I have made inquired about taking my Discovery over to the USA and there is no mention from them about the vehicle having to be kept legal in the country of origin, only that I would have just 1 year before the vehicle would have to leave the USA and so one could conclude that it is not possible to keep the vehicle legal in the country of origin because you couldn't do an MOT.
So where a CARNET is needed, at least the country you are visiting is protecting it's own population by enforcing minimum insurance or it's purchased at the border/point of entry to that country. Has anyone heard of anyone being fined for not having the equivalent of our MOT or Road Fund License when travelling??? No ?


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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:28 pm

I suspect we are going to end up with many versions of the 'truth'.

boyo wrote:
OK, I have spoken to the DVLA and they inform me that the vehicle owner needs to complete section 11 on the V5 and send it in to the DVLA which means that you are permentantly exporting the vehicle.
On arrival back to the UK the vehicle would need to be transported to a place for the MOT, Tax and Insurance to be brought back up to UK requirements.

This sounds similar to conversations I had with DVLA before I contacted RAC. I am not convinced. Boyo - if you have exported your vehicle, do you need to import it to being it back into the UK?

On another note.
I had a chat to Peter - very helpful man! In the past, they used to SORN the vehicle, and then have an MOT booked before returning to UK shores (preferably near to your port of entry). Before legisalation changed, this meant no need to tax or insure the vehicle. Now, you still need to insure a vehicle even if it is SORN.

I guess that there probably isn't only 1 way of doing this!

rgds
Sheelah

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:41 am

GirlChild wrote:
I suspect we are going to end up with many versions of the 'truth'.

Now, you still need to insure a vehicle even if it is SORN.

I guess that there probably isn't only 1 way of doing this!

rgds
Sheelah

Not quite correct about SORN and insurance - you only have to insure it if it isn't sorned.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl

The problem with permanently exporting the vehicle is that it would not be listed by the DVLA and as the MOT is now computerised so you would not be able to get an MOT, sorning the vehicle as you leave europe might be the best way although you will have issues of legality when you return, but I think exporting is a no no as you would then have to re-import the vehicle on return.

they were talking about making sorn a 1 off declaration to simplify paperwork.

rich

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:12 am

iveco4x4 wrote:

Not quite correct about SORN and insurance - you only have to insure it if it isn't sorned.

Yikes - my oops Embarassed I was completely making that up! Sorry.

iveco4x4 wrote:

I think exporting is a no no as you would then have to re-import the vehicle on return.

Rich - I agree, but some others may be happy with that option!

I think we are going to follow the advice of RAC and use the letter they provided me. This asks DVLA to put an export marker against the vehicle without actually having the vehicle exported. Have a look here:
Here
I haven't yet had a response from DVLA on when we need to provide this letter.

rgds
African GirlChild

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iveco4x4
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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:23 am

Interesting letter - please keep us posted on how you get on with DVLA replies etc.

My truck was exported back in the '90's and I guess it was shipped home. It has a different reg number now to the one it was origionally registered on. I think the export thing works fine if you are shipping it home.

Like I said - keep us informed , after all this paperwork stuff the trip will be easy Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:34 am

iveco4x4 wrote:
Interesting letter - please keep us posted on how you get on with DVLA replies etc.

Will do! thumbsup

iveco4x4 wrote:
after all this paperwork stuff the trip will be easy Very Happy

Agreed! Border crossings in deepest Africa will surely be a cinch in comparison!! tongue

rgds
African GirlChild


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GirlChild
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PostSubject: Re: Trips lasting over 12 months   Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:12 am

OK, long awaited, response from DVLA (with apologies for the slow response)

I asked when I need to send the letter in above post, given that we will tax our vehicle in Dec2012. He said

"If you are going to re-license your vehicle in December 2012, it would be advisable to inform us of the export after it has been taxed. If we update export before that date you will not be able to obtain a new license."

He also went on to say:
"If and when the vehicle does return to the UK you will need to book an MOT on your return and obtain the relevant insurance to be able to re-license your vehicle."

Hope that helps!

kind regards
African GirlChild


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