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 +2" articulation ?

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raff209
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PostSubject: +2" articulation ?   Thu May 26, 2011 4:27 am

Hi all I have a 2" terrafirma suspension lift on my discovery 300tdi +2" HD springs with +2" dampers dislocation cones and extended hoses I was looking at fitting lowered front turrets and rear damper droppers to get more articulation is this a good idea scratch or is it best to stick with standard height mountings any other ideas on improving articulation is very welcome Smile

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Fri May 27, 2011 2:49 am


If its for pay and play days & greenlanes then it will be usefull, the lower turrets and damper mount will in theory give better articulation. This could also be done with longer shock absorbers. There are varying length's available for most models of land rovers. Depending on your tyre size, with these articulation mods the tyre might bind and rub on either shock or wheel arch when the tyre is up in the arch.

If it was for overland & touring then I would probably leave it alone for reliability purposes. Land Rover articulation is ok straight from factory. If you had to do anything, I would probably look to make them stronger, but generally speaking they are strong enough unless in extreme cases. They don't spend 10 million on research and developmental for no reason.

But then due to all ready having a lift, even with these lowered mounts it might not articulate that much due to the front or rear trailing arms and bushes etc. Before you know it can get very costly for something that's not as reliable as when you started, it all depends on what you will use the vehicle for.

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Fri May 27, 2011 3:38 am

Hi thanks for your reply jas but I have already spent allot of cash on this truck not quite 10 million thou but getting closer by the day Laughing I have fitted caster correction arms cranked trailing arms all with Polly bushes the tyre size is 245/ 70/ 16 at the moment but as you say I don't want them any bigger as they will catch on the dampers or arches I use it for everything mud related from greenlanes to overland I am in the process of planning a trip to Iceland no not the food store Laughing I have the lowered turrets in the shed as I got them cheap from a friend so just wondered if it was a good idea to fit them or sell them on still unshure 😕

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Fri May 27, 2011 10:48 pm


Personally I would sell them on Ebay, save the money up and get a traction aid if you've not got one/two.
Articulation for show, Traction for go.
If your able to finance the build like you have stated then it would be more effective to put a LSD or diff locker in one of the axles. This would provide more traction BUT the down side is that it can put extra stress on you running gear components thus effecting the vehicle reliability. There are stronger CV & half shafts etc, but then again its going to cost lots....

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Fri May 27, 2011 11:37 pm

Hi and thanks again TJ I think you may be right and to be honest I think in my heart I knew that fitting them would be a bad idea Sad its a fine line trying to get the best out of a vehicle but keeping it reliable and easy to fix especially one used for overland travel I have considered fitting a LSD but we come to that fine line again and of course the cash involved as I am not a millionaire I have a wife and kids keeping my wallet open Laughing I think I probably will sell them and put the cash towards something useful maybe a long range fuel tank idea as its not great carrying loads of jerry cans thanks again for your input thumbsup

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sat May 28, 2011 12:41 am


No prob.

I've been there and done that with modifying vehicles.
I spent £££££ on a green oval badge vehicle and unfortunately that vehicle was not very reliable, turned out to be a hole in my pocket, where as my current truck I've spend £500 and used it alot from logging to touring to motorway with no problems.

It is hard not too buy cool looking kit and go overkill, & I still do it, I've got a set of Mud Terrains on the Terracan and I've only used them 5 times off road, and it was nothing a all season tyre couldn't handle. So yeah, its hard not to buy....


TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sat May 28, 2011 10:22 am

Articulation for show, Traction for go - I like it!

Yeah, temptation is all around so throwing money at off-road kit ain't a problem. The fact we haven't got the funds to back it up is. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sat May 28, 2011 8:22 pm

articulation for show traction for go I understand where you are going but articulation = traction as the wheels track the ground with out it you are not going to get much go with the wheels spinning in the air Wink

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 2:05 am

raff209 wrote:
Hi all I have a 2" terrafirma suspension lift on my discovery 300tdi +2" HD springs with +2" dampers dislocation cones and extended hoses I was looking at fitting lowered front turrets and rear damper droppers to get more articulation is this a good idea scratch or is it best to stick with standard height mountings any other ideas on improving articulation is very welcome Smile

First things first...What are you going to use the truck for ?
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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 3:25 am

raff209 wrote:
articulation for show traction for go I understand where you are going but articulation = traction as the wheels track the ground with out it you are not going to get much go with the wheels spinning in the air Wink

You are correct, but if you have a LSD or locker then this resolves the problem in most cases. Take my truck for instance, front independent suspension set up with rear coils. The front has limited articulation, due to this the front of the vehicle often nose dives in to most ruts leaving one rear wheel in the air, that's where the rear LSD comes in, shifting the drive to the tyre that is on the ground providing forward momentum. It does have its limitations tho like on steep inclines where the wheels will just spin (due to weight). Which is when a Locker would be better suited.

If my truck had a open rear diff & enough articulation in the axle that both tyres were touching ground I doubt that the vehicle would keep moving forward. Due to the low amount of pressure on the tyre drooping down, all of the drive would go to this wheel and it would most likely spin. This is where its handy to have a LSD or even better a Locker, The articulation does keep your wheels on the ground but if their is not enough pressure on the tyres then the tyres will spin and the vehicle wont work as effectively.

So Articulation for show, traction for go.


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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:00 am

I totally agree with you TJ but surly the extra articulation would give you the go for longer until the weight distribution causes the wheel to slip and you get even more go if you combine it with a LSD or locker Cool

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:05 am

Hi Gemini the truck is used for green lanes and overland and is currently being set up for a trip to Iceland Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:10 am

raff209 wrote:
I totally agree with you TJ but surly the extra articulation would give you the go for longer until the weight distribution causes the wheel to slip and you get even more go if you combine it with a LSD or locker Cool

Indeed, it all adds up in the end.

Got any pics of your truck?

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:27 am

raff209 wrote:
Hi Gemini the truck is used for green lanes and overland and is currently being set up for a trip to Iceland Very Happy

All stuff that standard LR suspension can deal with - If it were me I'd save the pennies and put it towards something more useful.


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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:36 am

yea it certainly adds up if you let it I TRY to only buy what I need or what will help my truck perform better please note TRY lol but it can run away with you unfortunately I don't have any new photos of my truck as it is striped out for painting and under going prep for my iceland trip I may have the odd old pic but not sure how to post pics on this forum yet Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 5:41 am

Why do you want to change Land Rover good set-up to something you don't know if it will work ?

I don't have any problems with the standard suspension and tyres on my truck.

If you are overlanding. Where do you expect to buy those non standard bits should you need to ?

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 6:38 am

gemini wrote:
Why do you want to change Land Rover good set-up to something you don't know if it will work ?

I don't have any problems with the standard suspension and tyres on my truck.

If you are overlanding. Where do you expect to buy those non standard bits should you need to ?


I do agree.

Modifying vehicles to the point where they don't need to be is something that happens alot in the UK and around the world, I've done it my self.
I have got a fue friends in america who own dodge & ford pick-ups with 8 inch lifts and 40" superswampers and they barely get put in to 4wd, using it to as a dialy commute.

There are quite alot of types of 4x4 owners out there, and it all depends and what they want to do. There are Land Rover owners like yourself with minimum or no mods travelling the world to those who have spent £30,000 and keeping it in the garage.

But then that's one of the great things about the 4x4 scene. All kinds of variation.

There is also alot advertising, false information in magazines, designed for you to spend money on items you don't necessarily need. "You need this mod to be cool", or "If you don't have huge knobbly tyres your a pansy".
Like I said it is easy to get caught up in it. Especially when you pay out for a new latest fashion accessory or item that then turns out to be a cheap pointless copy and yes braking down.

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Sun May 29, 2011 6:49 am

TJ
True
I remember somebody wanting all sorts of things on his Discovery. Then he saw my Defender just after our first trip. Believe me he didn't fit anything except safety items after that.

The same when you go to shows. Avoid the "shiny" vehicle. Look at the scruffy ones that's been there and done that.

At Driffielsd I joked with a friend that I'd nick the stickers off his Defender 110 and it would drop to bits. He laughted and said it would. Bet you he's in Morroco with it soon.
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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 2:19 am

Gemini I have changed the suspension for a terrafirma HD overland specific suspension system and it comes as a +2 lift and wanted to fit lowering turrets to help with articulation and traction standard suspension is ok but its neither a motorway burner or on off road eater its a compromise a jack of all trades but master of none so they leave it to the owners to set the truck up to their own personal uses and tastes take the Icelandic trucks for example thy have big lift kits massive tyres etc etc and its not just for show its because it needs these mods to go into the places a standard set up wont go my set up is no different I have not changed anything that cant be fixed in the field just trying to make it more capable without getting silly and buying into the showy stuff

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 2:34 am

raff209 wrote:
Gemini I have changed the suspension for a terrafirma HD overland specific suspension system and it comes as a +2 lift and wanted to fit lowering turrets to help with articulation and traction standard suspension is ok but its neither a motorway burner or on off road eater its a compromise a jack of all trades but master of none so they leave it to the owners to set the truck up to their own personal uses and tastes take the Icelandic trucks for example thy have big lift kits massive tyres etc etc and its not just for show its because it needs these mods to go into the places a standard set up wont go my set up is no different I have not changed anything that cant be fixed in the field just trying to make it more capable without getting silly and buying into the showy stuff

Iceland I can't and won't comment on.

Are you saying that my truck on standard Land Rover suspension isn't capable of going overland, except Iceland of course.
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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 2:35 am





this is an old pic of my truck when I got him before its mods for overland use Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 2:40 am

no I am just saying it can be improved upon for your personal use for some people standard is just fine for others they may want harder suspension for towing or softer for off-road or lowered for fast road the suspension just like tyre choice is personal to the individual that uses it Wink

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 2:44 am

Driver ability plays alot in it.

Using my truck again for example. Using the vehicle for Salisbury plain, touring, camping and some overland travel its fine but taking it on a pay and play site, winch challenge or timed dakar event its not going to do well. But I'm sure that if a die hard off road driver was at the wheel it would be more capable. Ill admit I'm not that experienced.
For my uses its fine, in 3 years I've got it stuck once and that was on grass in a field.

If you are a competent driver with much experiance you will undoubtedly go further off road and have more confidence in a standard vehicle than a slightly modifyed one than other people.

Or at least me thinks so. scratching chin

TJ

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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 3:05 am

Jas
I agree with all you say. At my first evening at the club I now go to, they were all talking about the days befor trial. How is this better, that better. Until I said those two words
DRIVER ABILITY....

No matter what you do to your truck you still have the same GVW and roof load limits as set by the manufacturer.

When overlanding the biggest problem that any driver or user faces is weight. I know what my Defender 110 weighs and it's frightening. Now some so called third world countries have twigged the weight issue. Not only for the vehicle but caravans and trailers. Yep, STOP please and onto the weighbridge.....
I don't pay and play, I do go onto the rough when marshalling in trials etc.



I don't see any probles here with articulation. Well over GVW at 3.5 TONNE



You can see the roads in this shot...
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PostSubject: Re: +2" articulation ?   Mon May 30, 2011 3:51 am


That is some weight!

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