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 roof lights,,,,

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tuggy
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PostSubject: roof lights,,,,   Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:03 pm

im looking for roof lights but cant find any i like, scratch ,,,i need small ones 55w would be fine but they must be small any ideas,,,,, scratching chin ,

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:02 pm


If you want to Fit and Forget then IMO I would use Piaa or IPF. Ive had both in the past and yes they are expensive but Ive used and abused both brands and in the Piaa's case the 520's (bulb 55watt=85watt) I bought 5 years ago still look new.

Try These:

http://piaa.com/Lamps/Lamp-pages/510.html
http://piaa.com/Lamps/Lamp-pages/520smr.html --- Highly Recommended
http://piaa.com/Lamps/Lamp-pages/540.html

http://www.arb.com.au/products/ipf-lights-accessories/ipf-868-968.php

http://www.lightforce.net.au/products/driving-lights/140lance

http://www.lightbarsdirect.co.uk/jumbo_320.html

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/product_detail.asp?prod=1066 --- Excelent Lamp (I use as Reverse Lamps)

Ive found out from previous exp that roof lights espcecialy ones over 150mm diameter act as a sail and can hamper your MPG, and that Multi-Story car parks + Ferrys dont like them....

Hope It Helps

TJ



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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:02 am

What about X-Lites

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Lite.asp

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:59 am


Thats quite a good idea what they have done with those Xlites. Moving the light back within the housing to prevent bonet glare is a good shout. £30 per lamp aint to bad. The Bulb looks like one of those you put in your house lights, good or bad I dont know.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:19 am

guys thanks for that lots of ideas and plenty to look at,,,, adore

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:36 am

You realise they are illegal for road use in the UK. That includes green lanes.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:05 am


Some of them are E-marked, like some Piaa models and most Ring Automotive lights listed, but even if they wern't I wouldn't worry about it.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:32 am

Have used both IPF and Lightforce Lights

The IPF lights are not a patch on Light Force Lights. The IPF lights are glass fronted and suffer from gravel rash.

If you want a small light with decent light output look at the Vision X Solstice light. 2" square, 10 watt LED with 900 lumens light output

HTH


Brendan

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:26 am

4x4overlander wrote:
Have used both IPF and Lightforce Lights

The IPF lights are not a patch on Light Force Lights. The IPF lights are glass fronted and suffer from gravel rash.

If you want a small light with decent light output look at the Vision X Solstice light. 2" square, 10 watt LED with 900 lumens light output

HTH


Brendan

Just checked out those Vision X LED Lights,,,,,,, EPIC

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:41 pm

Terracan Jas wrote:

Some of them are E-marked, like some Piaa models and most Ring Automotive lights listed, but even if they wern't I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if they are "E" marked they are illegal
No forward facing light to be positioned BEHIND the front axle. Trucks that have them fitted have them in front of the axle.

There could also be a height restriction.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:30 pm

gemini wrote:
Terracan Jas wrote:

Some of them are E-marked, like some Piaa models and most Ring Automotive lights listed, but even if they wern't I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if they are "E" marked they are illegal
No forward facing light to be positioned BEHIND the front axle. Trucks that have them fitted have them in front of the axle.

There could also be a height restriction.

Please can you inform me where in the Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 amended in 2005 that it states no auxiliary driving lights are to be positioned behind the front axle.

Modern trucks (HGV) have them positioned at the front of the roof in front of the axle due to design of modern UK/European trucks. However American designed UK registered trucks have them BEHIND the front axle.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:55 pm

It's there Brended as is the maximum lheigh restriction.

R3emembe FORD with the mark one Escort. Four Cibie Oscars at the front. All illegal.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:29 pm

Terracan Jas wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:44 pm

Terracan Jas wrote:
Terracan Jas wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree but fore warned id fore armed......More things for the thieves to take.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:19 am

I repeat where in the Vehicle Lighting Regulations of 1989 as amended in 2005 does it state that lights have to be forward of the front axle?

Or is this another urban myth?


Brendan


PS Auxiliary driving lights are not a MOT testable item.

Brendan

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:11 am

All light fitted must be in working order.

I can't be arsed to argue. If you like other overland preparation companies want to tell people to break the law then do so.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:45 am

For your information Mike as far as I am aware the legal status is as follows

Quote :


(Regulations 18 and 20)
SCHEDULE 5

PART I
Requirements relating to obligatory main-beam headlamps and to optional main-beam headlamps to the extent specified in part ii

1. Number–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b), (c) or (d):

Two
(b) A solo motor bicycle and motor bicycle combination:

One
(c) A motor vehicle with three wheels, other than a motor bicycle combination, first used before 1st January 1972:

One
(d) A motor vehicle with three wheels, other than a motor bicycle combination, first used on or after 1st January 1972 and which has an unladen weight of not more than 400 kg and an overall width of not more than 1300 mm:

One
2. Position–

(a) Longitudinal:

No requirement
(b) Lateral–

(i)Where two main-beam headlamps are required to be fitted–

(A)Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle:

The outer edges of the illuminated areas must in no case be closer to the side of the vehicle than the outer edges of the illuminated areas of the obligatory dipped-beam headlamps.
(B)Maximum separation distance between a pair of main-beam headlamps:

No requirement
(ii)Where one main-beam headlamp is required to be fitted:

(i)On the centre-line of the motor vehicle (disregarding any sidecar forming part of a motor bicycle combination), or

(ii)At any distance from the side of the vehicle (disregarding any sidecar forming part of a motor bicycle combination) provided that a duplicate lamp is fitted on the other side so that together they form a matched pair. In such a case, both lamps shall be treated as obligatory lamps.

(c) Vertical:

No requirement
3. Angles of visibility:

No requirement
4. Alignment:

To the front
5. Markings–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragaph (b), (c) or (d):

An approval mark or a British Standard mark
(b) A motor vehicle first used before 1st April 1986:

No requirement
(c) A three-wheeled motor vehicle, not being a motor bicycle combination, first used on or after 1st April 1986 and having a maximum speed not exceeding 50 mph:

No requirement
(d) A solo motor bicycle and a motor bicycle combination:

No requirement
6. Size of illuminated area:

No requirement
7. Colour:

White or yellow
8. Wattage–

(a) A motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, first used on or after 1st April 1986:

No requirement
(b) A motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or a motor bicycle combination, first used before 1st April 1986:

30 watts minimum
(c) A solo motor bicycle and a motor bicycle combination–

(i)having an engine not exceeding 250 cc:

15 watts minimum
(ii)having an engine exceeding 250 cc:

30 watts minimum
9. Intensity:

No requirement
10. Electrical connections–

(a) Every main-beam headlamp shall be so constructed that the light emitted therefrom–

(i)can be deflected at the will of the driver to become a dipped beam, or

(ii)can be extinguished by the operation of a device which at the same time either–

(A)causes the lamp to emit a dipped beam, or

(B)causes another lamp to emit a dipped beam.

(b) Where a matched pair of main-beam headlamps is fitted they shall be capable of being switched on and off simultaneously and not otherwise.

11. Tell-tale–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b):

A circuit-closed tell-tale shall be fitted
(b) A motor vehicle first used before 1st April 1986:

No requirement
12. Other requirements–

(a) Every main-beam headlamp shall be so constructed that the direction of the beam of light emitted therefrom can be adjusted whilst the vehicle is stationary.

(b) Except in the case of a bus first used before 1st October 1969, where two main-beam headlamps are required to be fitted they shall form a matched pair.

13. Definitions–

In this Schedule–
“approval mark” means–
(a) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 5 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 12 or 13 or 17 of Schedule 4 to those Regulations; or

(b) a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 4 of the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 1A or 1B or 1F or 5A or 5B or 5F or 8C or 8D or 8E or 8F or 8M or 8N or 20C or 20D or 20E or 20F or 20M or 20N or 31A or 31D of Schedule 2 to those Regulations; and

“British Standard mark” means the specification for sealed beam headlamps published by the British Standards Institution under the reference BS AU 40: Part 4a: 1966 as amended by Amendment AMD 2188 published in December 1976, namely “B.S. AU40”.
PART II
Requirements relating to optional main-beam headlamps

Any number may be fitted and the only requirements prescribed by these Regulations in respect of any which are fitted are those specified in paragraphs 7, 10 and 12(a) of Part I and, in the case of a motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1991, paragraph 5 of Part I.




What was the law regarding lights when the Mk1 Ford Escort was in production I have not got a clue. The state of vehicle lighting regulations then has no or little relevance to 2011. As far as I am aware the basic law regarding vehicle lighting is governed by the 1989 regs as amended in 2005.

There is as far as I can see no references in those regulations commenting about lights being behind the front axle.

IF I am wrong please prove to me by reference to the applicable law where I am wrong. If you can not or will not prove where I am wrong I suggest you desist from propagating an urban myth!



Brendan

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:06 am

I see your point, about main beam lights, no metion of spot lights or fog lights, it is my belive that spot lights must go off when main beam goes off, and fog lights must only be used in foggy or advers weather contions, some thing people in Scotland do not adhear to. And the police do nothing about.

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:21 am

Keep looking Brenden you will eventually find what I'm on about. There is a minimun height and a maximum height requirement. It's there somewhere.
Try 2' min and 3' 6" max

Remember FORD using the Mexico for three years fitted with an hydraulic handbrake, until it was MOT'd....
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:35 am

Mike I am perfectly happy with the legal situation regarding our roof lights.

The police in the UK seem quite happy with our roof lights, the MOT inspectors are happy, the producers of roof racks are happy to make and market brackets for their roof racks.

The only person who appears to be unhappy with roof lights is you and you seem unable or unwilling to back your point of view.


Brendan

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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:58 pm

Lets clarify the legal situation in simple terms:

There are restrictions on all lights placement on vehicles, some are Construction and Use Regulations, some are European Regulations, and some have come about because of the conflicts between the two sets of regulations, harmonisation of the two, and the numerous grey areas which have been subject to legal precedents.
There are two defined types of white lighting:

Driving lights - which are defined as forward facing FIXED lighting whose main purpose is illuminating the road for driving purposes.

Work lights - which are solidly mounted to a vehicle, but can face in any direction and can be moved or swiveled around, and are used when the vehicle is stationary, and not for illuminating the road while driving.
Basically work lights can be fixed anywhere as long as they comply with considerable other regulation such as harming pedestrians while a vehicle is moving, or may injure others in the event of an accident. They must be capable of being switched on and off locally or centrally, and must be fitted with a seperate isolation switch in conjunction with any other switch for individual lights, basically they must all have individual switches, and a seperate isolator switch.

Driving lights have maximum and minimum centres, they cannot be too wide or too closely mounted together.
Driving lights have maximum and minimum mounting heights, they can neither be too low or too high, this means all roof mounted driving lights on 4X4's are illegal for use on any public highway and any green lane as they are not compliant with the regulations. They can be used on private ground or private off road venues as these are not public rights of way, and there are certain exemptions for emergency or airport vehicles, specified recovery vehicles, and specialised lighting vehicles for film use.
All driving lights must be fitted in pairs, they must be correctly wired with the correctly rated equipment such as wiring, relays, switches, etc, which must be rated for the maximum carried voltage and current. They must only be capable of being illuminated when the vehicles main headlights are on full beam, and not main beam or sidelights, and must extinguish if the main vehicle headlights are dropped from full beam to main beam or sidelights.
Each pair of driving lights must have a visible indicator (warning light) visible from the drivers seat to show when any auxillary lighting is illuminated.
All driving lights (and any other light) used on road must be "E" marked, and Police forces are more aware of this legislation and are checking lighting more and more as it is an easy ticket for them.

Any light/s fitted to a vehicle must be fully operable, i.e. they must work, and are an MOT testable item, although most MOT testers do not bother.

As for the contraversy about fitting lights behind the front axle, this is not myth but came about by conflicts in considerable other legislation, many American/Canadian trucks have forward facing driving lights mounted on the rear of their cabs, this is usually for certain driving conditions found in these countries. Anyone watching programmes such as Ice Road truckers will clearly see these lights, their visibility conditions, and their need to light the side of the road adjacent to the side of the cab. These are legal in European markets as they are covered as personal import requlations, and several other regulations, but cannot be used on European roads.

This created a legal situation for American trucks, or America manufactured trucks, and some Indian manufactured trucks imported to Europe as non-personal imports, and was subject to a legal case in European courts which set a legal precedent.
It was deemed that all driving or fixed road illuminated lighting shall be accepted as forward mounted, and should be mounted as far forwards as possible to comply with any other regulations concerned with vehicle design, and an accepted reference point shall be that of the centreline of the front axle on a single front axled vehicle, or the forward axle of a twin front axled vehicle.
This is not actually written in statute, but with a legal precedent being set, all manufacturers followed the precedent and set driving lighting forward of the front axle.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:08 am

Roamingman:

Spotlights are driving lights as they are covered as auxillary lighting, and yes you are correct in they they must only operate when the main vehicle headlights are on full beam, and must extingusih when full beam is switched back to main beam or sidelights.

Fog lights are covered by their own regulations, thay are defined as fog lights, and not driving or spot lights.

Fog lights (front and rear) must only be used with visibility of less than 100 metres, it visibility is more than 100 metres they must be switched off, and yes we have all been dazzled by them when inept drivers leave rear fogs on in good conditions, and cannot see that great orange light on on their dashboard.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:28 am

Assassin wrote:
Roamingman:

Spotlights are driving lights as they are covered as auxillary lighting, and yes you are correct in they they must only operate when the main vehicle headlights are on full beam, and must extingusih when full beam is switched back to main beam or sidelights.

Fog lights are covered by their own regulations, thay are defined as fog lights, and not driving or spot lights.

Fog lights (front and rear) must only be used with visibility of less than 100 metres, it visibility is more than 100 metres they must be switched off, and yes we have all been dazzled by them when inept drivers leave rear fogs on in good conditions, and cannot see that great orange light on on their dashboard.

Para 1&2
Tell that to Ford Motor Company. The under bumper lights can be switched on at any time and they are a sopt light. Correct me if I'm wrong

Para 3
Please tell that to Clevelqnd police traffic car drivers.
I also interpret para 3 as when I am less than 100metre behind another car.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:29 am

You are wrong, they are legally classified as fog lights for the purposes of type approval for European markets.
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PostSubject: Re: roof lights,,,,   Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:41 am

Assassin wrote:
You are wrong, they are legally classified as fog lights for the purposes of type approval for European markets.

Are they indeed. Why use spot lights in fog ?
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