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 Horse's for course's

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wideformat4x4
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PostSubject: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:03 am

Imagine you have a budget of 5k and your looking for a diesel 4x4

You need to use it as day to day transport most of the year but you also want to do a bit of lanning and once or twice a year you want to pack it with camping gear and head off into the wide blue yonder mostly Europe but you have a pipe dream of the desert probably Morocco.

I know it would be a compromise but what do you buy.

The newest Discovery you can get an 01 or 02 reg with high mileage or older R,S or T plate some lowish mileage one's out there.

A Toyota Land cruiser again high mileage possible a 1990 something with between 120 to 150k mileage ?

A double cab pick up with a fibreglass truck top e.g. Navara again early 2000's with reasonable mileage ?

Grand Cherokee they do seem value for money but I expect there is a reason for that. ?

A defender don't make me laugh 5k would only get you a shed and you would have to clear the chickens out of it first.

Vauxhall Frontera LWB 5k would buy a good one, low mileage and spare's are widely available and reasonable cheap

Or maybe a SUV - Hyundai, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota ?

I have a ML 270 which as a road car is brilliant comfortable 35 to 40 to the gallon never missed a beat in the snow, but no ground clearance and pretty much no off road goodies available even struggled to get snow tyres.
I don't really want to get rid of it but wander lust may seal it's fate.

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:20 am

Discovery 300tdi....it will also leave you enough money to go to Morocco thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:19 am

I'd have to agree with Mac. Sure they drip oil from a variety of orifices and you have to have a good look to see if the ol' tinworm has been at work, but cost-wise you can't go too far wrong. Providing the engine and gearbox are solid, then you should be okay.

For that sort of money you can pick up a decent vehicle for £3,500 - £4,000 with some decent accessories somebody has already shelled out for, knowing you still have £1,000 spare for getting it all running nicely - brakes, steering, tyres, etc. And let's face it, when it comes to new and secondhand accessories for Discos, you've got plenty of choice and at sensible prices.

In my opinion, unless it's a recent model, running a £5,000 'foreign 4x4' in the UK is sheer folly. Great when they're new, but give them a bit of age and like all machinery, they will let you down at some point. Better to pay Disco prices for alternators, starter motors, CJ's/UJ's, whatever, than to fork out for Honda/Toyota/Hyundai prices. I know, I ran a Mk.1 Mitsubishi Pajero for a while, great when it was working, but when it didn't ... affraid

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:22 am

Mac wrote:
Discovery 300tdi....it will also leave you enough money to go to Morocco thumbsup
I'll 2nd that thumbsup
And what Tom Mc said above too Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:35 pm

wideformat4x4 wrote:
Imagine you have a budget of 5k and your looking for a diesel 4x4

You need to use it as day to day transport most of the year but you also want to do a bit of lanning and once or twice a year you want to pack it with camping gear and head off into the wide blue yonder mostly Europe but you have a pipe dream of the desert probably Morocco.

I know it would be a compromise but what do you buy.

The newest Discovery you can get an 01 or 02 reg with high mileage or older R,S or T plate some lowish mileage one's out there.

A Toyota Land cruiser again high mileage possible a 1990 something with between 120 to 150k mileage ?

A double cab pick up with a fibreglass truck top e.g. Navara again early 2000's with reasonable mileage ?

Grand Cherokee they do seem value for money but I expect there is a reason for that. ?

A defender don't make me laugh 5k would only get you a shed and you would have to clear the chickens out of it first.

Vauxhall Frontera LWB 5k would buy a good one, low mileage and spare's are widely available and reasonable cheap

Or maybe a SUV - Hyundai, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota ?

I have a ML 270 which as a road car is brilliant comfortable 35 to 40 to the gallon never missed a beat in the snow, but no ground clearance and pretty much no off road goodies available even struggled to get snow tyres.
I don't really want to get rid of it but wander lust may seal it's fate.

for this much money there for me would be one choice only,
a TD5 disco 2,
i have experienced some of the other options and would only ever now head in the direction of Land rover,
Land cruisers are great on paper but with working with Free Spirit 4x4 i have seen many come back from the africa trips both un harmed and more destoyed than most thought possible,
would only touch a fontera around 1995 - 1997

considering the infamous Free Spirit 110 300Tdi defender only cost £2000 and has been brilliant other than one head gasket change after 130k (seen this year in the lrw calender, mac 4x4, all the LRO shows, and driving the route of the Free Spirit 4x4 treasue hunt (spain) several times over)
ok we had to wash it and give it new front springs ( cost of £100 ) its not too bad, already lead over 20 routes and planned 4 european events aswell as taken part in 2 competitive events. we think you should consider a early 110 with either a low milage 300Tdi fitted or any 200Tdi's and if you want petrol then a 3.5 rover v8 (rebuilt on SU or holly carbs)
in africa people tell you that early land rovers and land cruisers are your only choice ( mostly they are wrong )
tell you whatt if it breaks then i would bet they could fix it easier than here unless electrical issues

choose any vehicle but make sure you care about it! and look after it fully
hope this has been of help
cheers kieran

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:52 pm

disco 2 is full of electronics,,,,pahhhh

my next motor is going to be a diesel jeep plenty of kit for them,spares are quite good to get hold of and there pretty bomb proof if looked after,,,and come fully loaded,,,,,

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:28 pm

jeeps are quite good in the sticky stuff,

yes there are a few electrics but they are so simple to fix on the D2

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:23 pm

Thanks for the advice lads I was sort of leaning that way but I thought if I threw it out there with the experience of the people on here there may be another option I hadn't thought about.

Diesel Disco 2 seemed the logical choice followed closely by the Jeep, looks like the Merc's days are numbered unless I can find a decent priced G wagon, Oh shoot !! there I go again.

May have to keep the Frontera for the mud though don't want to get the day to day transport too dirty, or else I get stick from the Mem Sarbe

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:42 am


This could be a very complicated thread.


There are 3 vehicles i would buy with £5,000

1: Hyundai Terracan. Yes i own one But.... I bought mine in 2008 with 50,000 miles, its a 2004, 2.9 CRDI, Auto, hi/lo ratio bla bla bla, i paid £4000, Lots of space, stupid amounts of torque, cheap, easy to find parts, bullet proof.

2: Kia Sorento: One of the best 4x4's ive driven next to my own for the money. 2.5/2.7/ tdi. Lots and lots of equipment, similar platform as above.

3: Ssangyong Rexton: Same as above, Value for money, works, not pritty but reliable.

All of the above are based on similar production line but all are different. Why pay £5,000 for a 1989 Defender 90 with 150,000 miles when you can get a 40/50k above example with tonnes of equipment for the same price.

My other choices would be in order: Toyota LandCruiser, Nissan Patrol, Mitsubishi Shogun, Izusu Trooper + Rodeo and Mazda BT50.

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:32 pm

Mitsubishi Shogun 3.2 DiD auto, great vehicle which is good off road and good on it, comes with considerable standard kit and several nice touches, the seats fold into beds, and yes they are comfortable, plenty of room in the LWB version, reliability and cheap to run. Centre locking diff, locking rear diff as standard, optional locking fromt diff; ability to run in 2 or 4wheel drive on the road so you have the choice, and will tow the heaviest trailers.

Nissan Terrano, prefer the 2.4 petrol or 3.0 diesel over the 2.7 diesel, the 2.4 was the Asian market light truck engine and is extremely reliable and robust, and is not as bad on fuel as people may assume, the 3.0 diesel is considerably improved over the 2.7, and gives much better performance.
Good off road and on road, reliable, but with a basic 4WD system which may be a benefit for some.

Land Rover, best avoided IMO as they require too much work and are unreliable, and they often suffer from many quite silly problems.

Frontera, depends on the engine and model, many unreliable or underpowered with the diesel, often has silly problems such as locating sensors below the engine which get damaged.
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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:24 pm

Land Rover would be my choice, as you can get the parts easy, and fix it youself.

The Jap stuff is good till it goes wrong, then the problems start.

I been down the comfy Jap 4x4 route, OUCH

03 reg Mitsi 3.2,

Intercooler £800, rear diff £2000, then the one that finished it, fuel pump £3500, and all this as it's dropping in value, faster than you can drive it.

Defenders don't drop in price and a diff is £200, and easy change.

For me I prefer small problems often, than big ones less often.

Every person will have a different veiw, and a lot will come from personal exprience, and how hands on you are with repairs.

Andy
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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:07 pm

landy andy wrote:
Land Rover would be my choice, as you can get the parts easy, and fix it youself.

The Jap stuff is good till it goes wrong, then the problems start.

I been down the comfy Jap 4x4 route, OUCH

03 reg Mitsi 3.2,

Intercooler £800, rear diff £2000, then the one that finished it, fuel pump £3500, and all this as it's dropping in value, faster than you can drive it.

Defenders don't drop in price and a diff is £200, and easy change.

For me I prefer small problems often, than big ones less often.

Every person will have a different veiw, and a lot will come from personal exprience, and how hands on you are with repairs.

Andy

As you say everyone view is and will always be different, my biggest problem is 85% of the year the vehicle will be used day to day as a commuter and van as I work for myself hence the Merc ML I will never regret buying it as it suits the purpose I bought it for but now I have the offroad bug it's a toy I want to fill the other 15%.

I bought a Frontera sport in November to satisfy the offroading bit and to enter the Landy Rally but as cheap as it has been to run and buy it's still an extra expense.

Hence my question on here, I have a Subaru wrx as a family car which the wife uses for her commute to work and it bring's a grin to my face every time I drive it but there's the rub running 3 car today with the road tax costing me £800 plus a year for all 3 and don't get me started on fuel prices or running costs.

The only trouble I can see going the Disco route is reliability, the father in law had a Disco for 10 years it was a demonstrator 10 month's old when he got it and I always thought it must have been a super car, he had it for so long but on talking to him one of the reasons was the amount he spent keeping it on the road after every service he didn't want to sell it as in his words it owe's me X amount and I wanted to get my moneys worth.

I take on board the ease of getting spares worldwide and if you can do the work yourself cheapness of repairs but I'm not particularly handy in the mechanical department so I think whatever I do will cost me big time.




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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:36 am


Over the years, bought and sold 1000's of 4x4s and comercial vehicles. From all my experiance and that of my fathers who has been doing this for 35 years. The Discovery II TD5 is the best one to have. But this can still cost a lot to buy. LandRovers work off road full stop. There are so many of them in the UK that parts are pennies Regardless of their poor Brand Reliability past. They are easy to fix and maintain.

Even when buying the most reliable 4x4 brand on the planet, a Toyota, you can pick one up that needs to be repaired.

When dealing with any customer we try to reccomend the best option regardless of opinion. And at the end of the day its Value for money. Now if your a fanatic and a fan then you will spend the earth to obtain what you want.

If the Frontera works then stay with it. Ive had alot of customers that have come to look at 4x4's and commercials and after buying they have admited it was "Grass is greener on the other side" syndrome, and the want there old vehicle back.

The only thing i am 100% certain on is that for the £5,000, which is alot of money, you can get alot more quality, overall reliability and lower running cost if you dont buy from the LR stable. They are not Bad 4x4's at all, but at the end of the day they offer poor value for money.

I wish you luck! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:51 pm

"Poor Value for Money"

But are you taking into acount there resale value.

I was looking at a Navara, new 55 plate, when they came out @ £27thou.
I eneded up buying my 04 reg Defender which when new would have been about the same, or less when new.

Mine is now selling for about £11-12 thou, the Navara is £5-6 thou. (Even though mine is 18 monthes older)

This must be considered if you are looking at newish model, but less so if are interested in the cheaper end.

As is the way with all vehicles, there are good and bad of all makes, and a lot comes down to luck with which one you end up with.

Andy
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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:23 pm

tuggy wrote:
disco 2 is full of electronics,,,,pahhhh

my next motor is going to be a diesel jeep plenty of kit for them,spares are quite good to get hold of and there pretty bomb proof if looked after,,,and come fully loaded,,,,,


Can't see the problem there tbh! Buy a diagnostic tool and it tells you what the problem is, thus eliminating all the guess work and trial by error.

20,000+ virtually trouble free miles says Td5 D2 every time to me. clapping

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PostSubject: Re: Horse's for course's    Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:14 am

landy andy wrote:
"Poor Value for Money"

But are you taking into acount there resale value.

I was looking at a Navara, new 55 plate, when they came out @ £27thou.
I eneded up buying my 04 reg Defender which when new would have been about the same, or less when new.

Mine is now selling for about £11-12 thou, the Navara is £5-6 thou. (Even though mine is 18 monthes older)

This must be considered if you are looking at newish model, but less so if are interested in the cheaper end.

As is the way with all vehicles, there are good and bad of all makes, and a lot comes down to luck with which one you end up with.

Andy

I do agree.

You must remember that we buy at trade prices. - So what you see on autotrader or Land Rover monthly at £8k is in reality worth £3K By the book.

In the private sector this does'nt matter because there is such a calling for that brand.

Now if you was to buy that Navara that Landy Andy mentioned thats a better overall vehicle for half the price of the Landie, the landie is not bad but the nissan will do what the Landie will do, in some areas better and in some areas worse, for half the price - Value for money. This is great if you are buying but indeed poor if you are selling from new.....

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