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 Man or Auto off road

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Tommy Kaira
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PostSubject: Man or Auto off road   Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:51 am

Hello guys,

I'm ready to buy a new pick up. It'll be used as a daily run around, off road and hopefully for some moderate overlanding. Now I've only ever driven off road with a manual transmission but for the daily slog (and much preferred by she who must be obeyed) an auto would be nice.

Are there any major downsides with regards to off road performance to going for an auto? I don't want to make my life easier on road and then find I'm totally snookered every time I go through more than a muddy puddle!

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:18 am

Hi and welcome, clinking teacups

A lot of people prefer auto's for off road, myself I still like manual,
Am sure more will be along shortly, and advise you on the best pick up's never had one myself.

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Tommy Kaira
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:55 am

Thanks roamingman. That's good to know. Look forward to some more opinions too.
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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:13 pm

Definitely manual off-road for me. Downhill descents in an auto Range Rover are scary, whereas with a manual it's controlled.

However, when off-road racing a lot of drivers love autos, but that's a lot flatter than normal slow speed off-roading up hill and down dale. Horses for courses.

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Last edited by Tom Mc on Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:16 am

It depends on the vehicle and type of auto transmission, when I got the Shogun it was automatic and I preferred manual, but after the Shogun I prefer the auto every time, but why?

With the Super Select system it can be used in auto or manual tiptronic mode and in manual mode you simply flick the stick into manual and tap it forwards and backwards to go up or down the gears; in addition the torque convertor locks up giving a solid drive; and you can lock it in one gear and it stays there until you flick back to auto or change it using the tiptronic system.

Unfortunately the Mitsubishi system was so far advanced for its day, and still is that other 4X4 manufacturers failed to offer this option and it is this negative attitude which held many automatic 4X4's such as land Rover and Toyota back.
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Tommy Kaira
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Wed May 13, 2015 2:34 am

Thanks for the input. I bought myself a 2015 Hilux Invincible with an....automatic 'box. So far it's been fantastic and the missus has asked for us to take it up to the north of Sweden this winter in search of the Northern light and for a general look around. Very happy!
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Fri May 29, 2015 6:59 am

i love auto...great off road
clapping

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Tom Mc
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Fri May 29, 2015 10:17 am

tuggy wrote:
i love auto...great off road
Including steep descents Tuggy? I'm surprised.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Fri May 29, 2015 5:56 pm

Tom Mc wrote:
tuggy wrote:
i love auto...great off road
Including steep descents Tuggy? I'm surprised.


yes tom you do get engine braking with auto in low box ........and you do have brakes.... thumbsup

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat May 30, 2015 5:27 am

Of what I've found, even in first low the engine braking on a V8 Rangie is still not as good as a manual box. Not talking of brakes at all, in my mind they are a last resort to be pumped if it's still running away and picking up speed - "speed" being 2 or 3 mph instead of 1 mph!

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat May 30, 2015 8:25 am

I agree with Tom manual in low range is better, clinking teacups

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat May 30, 2015 8:34 am

So there Tuggy ... two against one, get out of that one!!!


It's like being back at school! bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat May 30, 2015 8:40 am

A quick P.S. ...

In your time you've done a lot of off-road racing Tuggy, quite often in Range Rover Classics (always a bonus Very Happy ), so at speed what is best - manual or auto?


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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sun May 31, 2015 9:43 am

AUTO,,,,most of the big buggys use auto.......... adore

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:17 am

Sorry, its a draw now as I am with Tuggy.

You do have to learn to drive an auto and do some things in reverse which totally opposes what you were taught.

With a Tiptronic box or one with the capability to lock it in a gear you actually get around twice the engine braking due to the torque multiplication of the torque convertor, hence the reason most off road plant is now automatic.
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:16 am

We live and learn, for me it's back to the drawing board. study

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:43 pm

Its merely evolution Tom, when Mitsubishi developed the Super Select transmission system it did everything for everyone and was vilified as being too complicated, these days many try to copy or emulate this system so we could say it was well ahead of its time and led the field in a transmission system which did it all.
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:25 am

Mmmmm, still prefer manual. Of course especially useful for an overland vehicle as you never know when you need a tow or even a push to get started in the middle of nowhere. Shame someone hasn't invented an auto box that'll let you do this, then you really would have transmission which did it all.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:45 pm

Have to agree with Tom again, on the commits above.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:55 pm

You can with the Mitsubishi system and the current BMW system which is basically a sports orientated rip off (they say derivative) of the Mitsubishi system.

But then again Tom you will buy these unreliable vehicles such as Land Rover and not reliable vehicles such as Mitsubishi which don't have this problem. computer-22 computer-22 computer-22 computer-22 computer-22

clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups clinking teacups
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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:55 am

But I had one of those 'reliable' Mitsubishis - a Mk1 LWB High Top Pajero back in 2006 - and when the drive train decided to pack up (on tarmac at about 40 mph BTW, it wasn't even off-road) nobody wanted to touch it. "Too expensive to repair", "may as well scrap it or you'll be throwing good money after bad" were typical comments.

Consensus of opinion was ... it was probably the auto box that gave up, but nobody quite knew for sure. They were right of course, it would have cost a packet to find out the fault, and once found then I would still have to shell out for a replacement transmission, plus have it replaced.

Far cheaper to dump it and go buy a Range Rover Classic. Have to say the insurance for the Paj was twice the price too, so ever since I've stuck with Rangies because they are cheap to run!

My 1994 auto 3.9 V8 on LPG for instance cost £800, and it came prepared for off-roading with sump and guards, a 3" body lift, cranked radius arms, dislocating cones, heavy duty bumpers front and rear, and mud tyres worth £500 on their own. It achieves 15-18 mpg, which on LPG is cheaper to run than a diesel (LR or Mitso), I've had it now for about four years and the only thing that I've ever done to it was to replace the brake pads.

That's very cheap motoring, especially for a motor that likes to play in the mud!!!

The point is, I'm not comparing modern Land Rovers/Mitsos with each other, but when it comes to older play-in-the-mud type stuff, in this country Discos and Range Rovers are cheap to buy and run - Mitsubishis, Isuzus, Nissans and Toyotas are not.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:05 am

have to agree with Tom, had an Isuzu 2.8 4x4 in 1998 transmission on that broke it would have cost more than car was worth to get fixed, my friend had the same model, he up graded to a 3.00 said it was the worst motor he ever had, sold it.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:21 pm

I am swapping my manual Ford Ranger for an automatic Ford Ranger next month so pleased to hear Assassin's views on automatics as it is the type which can be put into manual. Will report back on how I get along with it off road.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:17 am

Will be an interesting comparison.

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PostSubject: Re: Man or Auto off road   Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:06 pm

Quote :
But I had one of those 'reliable' Mitsubishis - a Mk1 LWB High Top Pajero back in 2006 - and when the drive train decided to pack up (on tarmac at about 40 mph BTW, it wasn't even off-road) nobody wanted to touch it. "Too expensive to repair", "may as well scrap it or you'll be throwing good money after bad" were typical comments.

Consensus of opinion was ... it was probably the auto box that gave up, but nobody quite knew for sure. They were right of course, it would have cost a packet to find out the fault, and once found then I would still have to shell out for a replacement transmission, plus have it replaced.

Now there's an interesting admission, scrapping a vehicle without diagnosing the fault on a consensus of opinions of those not even looking at the vehicle which is merely an assumption of uneducated people in Aisin auto boxes, it beggars belief.

If you had taken it to an Aisin dealer they have a diagnosis time of 35 minutes for this box and the drivetrain as they have the knowledge and the correct equipment to diagnose the fault, so no it wouldn't have cost a fortune to diagnose and you could have an exact diagnosis to make an informed decision instead of uneducated opinions. Aisin dealers charged 1/2 hours labour charge for this which back in 2006 was around £30 + VAT so not expensive at all at £34.50.

Did you know the exact procedure for checking the ATF? I ask because many owners don't and if you don't know the correct procedure and just pull the dipstick it will show between the marks, but be low because the procedure hadn't been followed, so potentially you could have scrapped a perfectly good vehicle for low ATF or 1 litre of Dia Queen SP.

Aisin boxes are renowned as the toughest on the market and you can get every individual component for them, or you can buy a complete sub assembly which means they are not actually expensive to repair, actually they are cheaper than most other transmissions as you can repair them yourself and you can actually hire any special tools from an Aisin dealer should you need them as well as download a full manual for free. In point of fact they are one of the easiest to repair and a good way for a DIY mechanic to start repairing their first autobox.

One of the issues with Aisin boxes compared to the LR autos is their durability, every independent autobox specialist knows LR products inside out as they are so unreliable they are bread and butter stuff to them as they repair so many of them, by comparison the Aisin box is so durable they very rarely have to work on them and know little to nothing about them which leads to such assumptions as posted above. You can buy a secondhand LR autobox and you can be buying another junk box and waste time replacing it only to find its junk and have the trouble of getting your money back and sourcing another working box. Buy a secondhand Aisin box and you whip it round to your nearest dealer and he will run a full diagnosis for £45 + VAT at your nearest dealer so you know it works before you even start removing your old box, and that price is for the later super select (more complex) system and was obtained on 3/7/2015 from your nearest Aisin dealer.
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